Comments on: GearChat: Windows Mobile…Yeah, We Went There http://www.geardiary.com/2008/04/29/gearchat-windows-mobile/ Everyone can understand technology; sometimes it just takes a little translating. Tue, 14 Feb 2012 22:47:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Judie Lipsetthttp://www.geardiary.com/2008/04/29/gearchat-windows-mobile/#comment-34856 Judie Lipsett Thu, 01 May 2008 17:38:27 +0000 http://www.geardiary.com/?p=7218#comment-34856 Not to add fuel to the fire, but I wanted to mention this article in case you all had missed it: http://www.geek.com/feature-iphone-ify-your-windows-mobile-device/ Joel walks the reader through several applications that can iPhone-ify a Windows Mobile device. As he puts it, "it's not about whether or not you get the iphone. It's more about making WIndows Mobile a more fluid experience. There's a lot of power under the hood and sometimes it's tough to fully appreciate it because of shortcomings in the UI. These apps help address that." Not to add fuel to the fire, but I wanted to mention this article in case you all had missed it:

http://www.geek.com/feature-iphone-ify-your-windows-mobile-device/

Joel walks the reader through several applications that can iPhone-ify a Windows Mobile device.

As he puts it, “it’s not about whether or not you get the iphone. It’s more about making WIndows Mobile a more fluid experience. There’s a lot of power under the hood and sometimes it’s tough to fully appreciate it because of shortcomings in the UI. These apps help address that.”

]]> By: Perryhttp://www.geardiary.com/2008/04/29/gearchat-windows-mobile/#comment-34798 Perry Thu, 01 May 2008 11:35:42 +0000 http://www.geardiary.com/?p=7218#comment-34798 I just don't agre that the close button is that big a deal. Sure it was a lousy design decision, but the effects are minor and there are a zillion good workarounds available. A much bigger mistake was the decision to avoid any cannibalization of Windows sales by purposely crippling the apps on WM. And yes, battery life is a horrible problem, but I think it will take more than Microsoft to solve that one, unfortunately. I just don’t agre that the close button is that big a deal. Sure it was a lousy design decision, but the effects are minor and there are a zillion good workarounds available. A much bigger mistake was the decision to avoid any cannibalization of Windows sales by purposely crippling the apps on WM.

And yes, battery life is a horrible problem, but I think it will take more than Microsoft to solve that one, unfortunately.

]]> By: Chuckhttp://www.geardiary.com/2008/04/29/gearchat-windows-mobile/#comment-34727 Chuck Wed, 30 Apr 2008 21:57:18 +0000 http://www.geardiary.com/?p=7218#comment-34727 Much as I have liked PPC/WM devices since my first iPaq (I still use my Toshiba 740 as my primary ebook reading machine, and I carry a Treo 750), I am convinced that UMPCs/MIDs will shortly (not for another 2 years) take over the ecology niche that WM now holds. The ability to use full apps will drive this decision for me. For those who say that that will make the platform too complex, I would argue that it is already too complex for most people. They rarely use their WM or iPhone device for more than phone calls, email, and occasional web surfing. Battery Life is now close to the #1 issue for most hardware vendors - it will be improved. Microsoft has only itself to blame. It has steadfastly refused to act on requirements from its user base for the last 8 years. Much as I have liked PPC/WM devices since my first iPaq (I still use my Toshiba 740 as my primary ebook reading machine, and I carry a Treo 750), I am convinced that UMPCs/MIDs will shortly (not for another 2 years) take over the ecology niche that WM now holds. The ability to use full apps will drive this decision for me.
For those who say that that will make the platform too complex, I would argue that it is already too complex for most people. They rarely use their WM or iPhone device for more than phone calls, email, and occasional web surfing.
Battery Life is now close to the #1 issue for most hardware vendors – it will be improved.
Microsoft has only itself to blame. It has steadfastly refused to act on requirements from its user base for the last 8 years.

]]> By: Christopher Gavulahttp://www.geardiary.com/2008/04/29/gearchat-windows-mobile/#comment-34719 Christopher Gavula Wed, 30 Apr 2008 20:24:58 +0000 http://www.geardiary.com/?p=7218#comment-34719 While I do agree that some of the WM problems stem from having to maintain compatibility on a larger base, I don't think that's the biggest problem. The biggest problem is that there are core, OS issues - memory management - alarms - the "close" button, that have nothing to do with backward compatibility. Worse - they were issues long before WM had much of an installed base at all and they continue to be an issue years later. That is why it's so frustrating. When I hear people say that "poor" Microsoft has to support so many platforms, you have to keep in mind that MS courted most of these folk to convince them to use WM on their devices. It isn't like MS got saddled with them, rather they actively sought them out as partners. Therefore, I believe MS SHOULD have maintained a much more active role in the development department. While I do agree that some of the WM problems stem from having to maintain compatibility on a larger base, I don’t think that’s the biggest problem.

The biggest problem is that there are core, OS issues – memory management – alarms – the “close” button, that have nothing to do with backward compatibility. Worse – they were issues long before WM had much of an installed base at all and they continue to be an issue years later. That is why it’s so frustrating.

When I hear people say that “poor” Microsoft has to support so many platforms, you have to keep in mind that MS courted most of these folk to convince them to use WM on their devices. It isn’t like MS got saddled with them, rather they actively sought them out as partners. Therefore, I believe MS SHOULD have maintained a much more active role in the development department.

]]> By: pradleyhttp://www.geardiary.com/2008/04/29/gearchat-windows-mobile/#comment-34678 pradley Wed, 30 Apr 2008 16:14:07 +0000 http://www.geardiary.com/?p=7218#comment-34678 I forgot to mention that I am beta testing Skyfire: it's a browser that does what Safari does on the iphone, render full web pages. Unlike the earlier Deepfish, which I also beta tested, it really works. The developers even boast that it can do a slideshow - which, they say, Safari cannot. I have used OperaMobile, but this is better. WM aficionados should look into it. I forgot to mention that I am beta testing Skyfire: it’s a browser that does what Safari does on the iphone, render full web pages. Unlike the earlier Deepfish, which I also beta tested, it really works. The developers even boast that it can do a slideshow – which, they say, Safari cannot. I have used OperaMobile, but this is better. WM aficionados should look into it.

]]> By: pradleyhttp://www.geardiary.com/2008/04/29/gearchat-windows-mobile/#comment-34674 pradley Wed, 30 Apr 2008 15:57:49 +0000 http://www.geardiary.com/?p=7218#comment-34674 I remember reading sometime ago (though I don't remember where) that when MS brought out WM it had to be careful not to make it too good lest MS cannibalize its own sales of Windows on PC's: I don't know that that makes sense any more. I am not interested in an iphone, first because of the awful keyboard (if that's what it is) and secondly because I do not need to carry any music with me (and that always seemed to me to be the real reason to get one). OTOH, the WM (5.1) on my MotoQ needs work, mainly when it comes to battery life (battery technology remains locked in the past). Moreover, I have to do too many soft resets which is due, I think, to clashes among the 3rd-party software programs I have installed, and I have installed a lot (dictionaries, calculators, readers, star charts). BTW, I have an Amazon Kindle which I carry with me every day, and I no longer read on a backlit PDA or phone. I remember reading sometime ago (though I don’t remember where) that when MS brought out WM it had to be careful not to make it too good lest MS cannibalize its own sales of Windows on PC’s: I don’t know that that makes sense any more.
I am not interested in an iphone, first because of the awful keyboard (if that’s what it is) and secondly because I do not need to carry any music with me (and that always seemed to me to be the real reason to get one). OTOH, the WM (5.1) on my MotoQ needs work, mainly when it comes to battery life (battery technology remains locked in the past). Moreover, I have to do too many soft resets which is due, I think, to clashes among the 3rd-party software programs I have installed, and I have installed a lot (dictionaries, calculators, readers, star charts).
BTW, I have an Amazon Kindle which I carry with me every day, and I no longer read on a backlit PDA or phone.

]]> By: perrymanhttp://www.geardiary.com/2008/04/29/gearchat-windows-mobile/#comment-34665 perryman Wed, 30 Apr 2008 15:27:49 +0000 http://www.geardiary.com/?p=7218#comment-34665 One of the biggest problems with WM, in my view, is that early on, Microsoft decided that Windows CE must be less capable than the desktop Windows in order not to steal sales from it. I think WM has suffered ever since, especially with the Inbox, Internet Explorer, and the Office Mobile apps. Fortunately, I do see them finally making some strides there, but those apps still lag far behind their desktop counterparts. Naturally, they will never be as full-featured as desktop applications, nor should they be, but some of the limitations feel artificial and the result of marketing decisions, not technical. I do think that Apple susprised Microsoft somewhat by proving how successful a stylus-less (say that three times fast) touch interface could be and now we see Microsoft and many third-party WM app vendors trying to catch-up. Let's face it; there aren't that many differences really between Pocket PC 2002 and Windows Mobile 6.1. Microsoft, as they often do when not facing any dominant competition, sat back and got lazy and let WM glide along with much real innovation. Let's hope that the iPhone helps spur them into some real changes again. I also fully agree with the comment about WM being saddled down by backwards-compatibility requirements. I often make the exact same argument about Windows Vista. I really do wish Microsoft would make the big gamble and dump the backwards-compatibility on both platforms (or do it via a virtual environment that gets loaded when needed, like Apple did for OS 9 in OS X) and finally take a big step forward. But I suppose that is just wishful thinking on my part. I should close by saying that I do enjoy WM, especially on my new Sprint Touch. I've been using it, and its predecessors, since my old HP Jornada 320, and on many devices in between. One of the biggest problems with WM, in my view, is that early on, Microsoft decided that Windows CE must be less capable than the desktop Windows in order not to steal sales from it. I think WM has suffered ever since, especially with the Inbox, Internet Explorer, and the Office Mobile apps. Fortunately, I do see them finally making some strides there, but those apps still lag far behind their desktop counterparts. Naturally, they will never be as full-featured as desktop applications, nor should they be, but some of the limitations feel artificial and the result of marketing decisions, not technical.

I do think that Apple susprised Microsoft somewhat by proving how successful a stylus-less (say that three times fast) touch interface could be and now we see Microsoft and many third-party WM app vendors trying to catch-up. Let’s face it; there aren’t that many differences really between Pocket PC 2002 and Windows Mobile 6.1. Microsoft, as they often do when not facing any dominant competition, sat back and got lazy and let WM glide along with much real innovation.

Let’s hope that the iPhone helps spur them into some real changes again.

I also fully agree with the comment about WM being saddled down by backwards-compatibility requirements. I often make the exact same argument about Windows Vista. I really do wish Microsoft would make the big gamble and dump the backwards-compatibility on both platforms (or do it via a virtual environment that gets loaded when needed, like Apple did for OS 9 in OS X) and finally take a big step forward. But I suppose that is just wishful thinking on my part.

I should close by saying that I do enjoy WM, especially on my new Sprint Touch. I’ve been using it, and its predecessors, since my old HP Jornada 320, and on many devices in between.

]]> By: Judie Lipsetthttp://www.geardiary.com/2008/04/29/gearchat-windows-mobile/#comment-34661 Judie Lipsett Wed, 30 Apr 2008 15:03:39 +0000 http://www.geardiary.com/?p=7218#comment-34661 @Kevin - You have been a really good sport about having your original email discussed like this, thank you. :-) @Wayne - credit where credit is due - you suggested the pictures, and I think they were a great idea. :-D And your comment about "installed base" is right on the money. @Doug - I <em>might</em> have a copy of the chain mail shirt somewhere... :lol: @Kevin – You have been a really good sport about having your original email discussed like this, thank you. :-)

@Wayne – credit where credit is due – you suggested the pictures, and I think they were a great idea. :-D

And your comment about “installed base” is right on the money.

@Doug – I might have a copy of the chain mail shirt somewhere… :lol:

]]> By: Joel McLaughlinhttp://www.geardiary.com/2008/04/29/gearchat-windows-mobile/#comment-34654 Joel McLaughlin Wed, 30 Apr 2008 14:34:30 +0000 http://www.geardiary.com/?p=7218#comment-34654 Dang it's STILL going on! I'll be quiet now.....really I will! :D Dang it’s STILL going on! I’ll be quiet now…..really I will! :D

]]> By: Doug Goldringhttp://www.geardiary.com/2008/04/29/gearchat-windows-mobile/#comment-34623 Doug Goldring Wed, 30 Apr 2008 10:54:11 +0000 http://www.geardiary.com/?p=7218#comment-34623 @ Wayne, Unfortunately, I am afraid the chain mail picture was lost in the crash. Never to be seen again. Did you hear me?? NEVER TO BE SEEN AGAIN. :) @Kevin, I think my initial comment was not so much a criticism of this program specifically as something I have seen more generally. There are literally dozens of programs out there which essentially put an iPhone interface on Windows Mobile. It is almost becoming a sub-genre of iPhone-like apps for Windows Mobile. In my opinion, developers should be less concerned with making Windows Mobile look and behave like the iPhone and more concerned with making Windows Mobile work effectively on its own. Like I said, I think Windows Mobile can be and should be the most powerful and effective platform out there. It does everything that all of the other platforms do, and much more. And it could do them all better. So, while I like a firnger friendly interface, I don't think that interface always needs to mimic the iPhone. I'd like to see some real innovation and see how far Windows Mobile developers can push finger friendly applications past what the iPhone does. the iPhone should have been a wake up call for Windows Mobile, but I feel more and more like someone just rolled over, said, "Oh crap look at the time>" aqnd hit the snooze button. Doug @ Wayne, Unfortunately, I am afraid the chain mail picture was lost in the crash. Never to be seen again. Did you hear me?? NEVER TO BE SEEN AGAIN. :)

@Kevin, I think my initial comment was not so much a criticism of this program specifically as something I have seen more generally. There are literally dozens of programs out there which essentially put an iPhone interface on Windows Mobile. It is almost becoming a sub-genre of iPhone-like apps for Windows Mobile.

In my opinion, developers should be less concerned with making Windows Mobile look and behave like the iPhone and more concerned with making Windows Mobile work effectively on its own. Like I said, I think Windows Mobile can be and should be the most powerful and effective platform out there. It does everything that all of the other platforms do, and much more. And it could do them all better. So, while I like a firnger friendly interface, I don’t think that interface always needs to mimic the iPhone. I’d like to see some real innovation and see how far Windows Mobile developers can push finger friendly applications past what the iPhone does.

the iPhone should have been a wake up call for Windows Mobile, but I feel more and more like someone just rolled over, said, “Oh crap look at the time>” aqnd hit the snooze button.

Doug

]]> By: Wayne Schulzhttp://www.geardiary.com/2008/04/29/gearchat-windows-mobile/#comment-34611 Wayne Schulz Wed, 30 Apr 2008 09:31:21 +0000 http://www.geardiary.com/?p=7218#comment-34611 Great article and thanks for laying this all out with pictures Judie - I find it a bit interesting to follow who's who when there are photos - Note: Find Doug G chain mail suit picture for next article - that photo is the best! :-) Microsoft has an overall problem with improving their OS that Apple didn't. And you can sum it up in two words. "Installed Base" It would have been almost impossible to make massive changes and also ensure all their prior applications were fully compatible with a new Windows Mobile. Apple in all fairness didn't have that problem. Apple's iPhone is also perceived (at least by me) as being more stable (less crashing) largely because there are fewer third party apps currently used that could muck it up. RIM Blackberry has/had a similar stability aura - there weren't these huge piles of third party apps that people installed that ultimately caused instability. Windows Mobile and Palm both benefit and are dragged down by the huge third party catalog of softwarethat they must carry on their backs with every operating system upgrade. Great article and thanks for laying this all out with pictures Judie – I find it a bit interesting to follow who’s who when there are photos – Note: Find Doug G chain mail suit picture for next article – that photo is the best! :-)

Microsoft has an overall problem with improving their OS that Apple didn’t. And you can sum it up in two words.

“Installed Base”

It would have been almost impossible to make massive changes and also ensure all their prior applications were fully compatible with a new Windows Mobile.

Apple in all fairness didn’t have that problem.

Apple’s iPhone is also perceived (at least by me) as being more stable (less crashing) largely because there are fewer third party apps currently used that could muck it up.

RIM Blackberry has/had a similar stability aura – there weren’t these huge piles of third party apps that people installed that ultimately caused instability.

Windows Mobile and Palm both benefit and are dragged down by the huge third party catalog of softwarethat they must carry on their backs with every operating system upgrade.

]]> By: reidmehttp://www.geardiary.com/2008/04/29/gearchat-windows-mobile/#comment-34604 reidme Wed, 30 Apr 2008 05:35:44 +0000 http://www.geardiary.com/?p=7218#comment-34604 My two cents: If Microsoft was capable of fixing WinMobile (or even Windows for that matter) it would already be done. They've certainly been at it long enough. The problem is right there in their name, they are MicroSOFT. They only do software, yet they have tried to be everything to everybody, run on everybody's hardware, and stay backward compatible with everything. They've simply bitten off more than they can chew, or than anybody can be expected to chew. If they are going to succeed in the future they are going to have to FOCUS! My two cents: If Microsoft was capable of fixing WinMobile (or even Windows for that matter) it would already be done. They’ve certainly been at it long enough. The problem is right there in their name, they are MicroSOFT. They only do software, yet they have tried to be everything to everybody, run on everybody’s hardware, and stay backward compatible with everything. They’ve simply bitten off more than they can chew, or than anybody can be expected to chew. If they are going to succeed in the future they are going to have to FOCUS!

]]> By: kdoelhttp://www.geardiary.com/2008/04/29/gearchat-windows-mobile/#comment-34603 kdoel Wed, 30 Apr 2008 04:57:57 +0000 http://www.geardiary.com/?p=7218#comment-34603 Since it was my press release that got the ball rolling, I figure I'll toss in my two cents. The "iPhone-like" issue was never-ever brought up on any BlackBerry blog (that I know of) when we launched FlipSide on that platform. The guys at Electric Pocket may have a different take on it, but to me the thing that people like about the iPhone is its simple, visual interface. But that doesn’t mean I want my entire phone to be so simple, which is why I chose a Mogul over something like an iPhone (and it didn’t hurt that I’m a Sprint customer, of course). But for an MP3 player, the iPhone experience would be nice to have when I want it…a simple process of flipping through my album collection to get to the tunes I want. If you want a more standard “playlist organizer” MP3 player for Windows Mobile, the company also offers LobsterTunes (www.lobstertunes.com), which also gives you the ability to access your tunes collection on your PC. It shouldn’t be perceived as an insult to the Windows Mobile platform that products are developed that reflect the visual interface of the iPhone. For some people and some apps, that format just scratches the itch better (but, again, for an overall phone I’ll take my Mogul over an iPhone anyday). Interesting that it started such a debate! Since it was my press release that got the ball rolling, I figure I’ll toss in my two cents.

The “iPhone-like” issue was never-ever brought up on any BlackBerry blog (that I know of) when we launched FlipSide on that platform. The guys at Electric Pocket may have a different take on it, but to me the thing that people like about the iPhone is its simple, visual interface. But that doesn’t mean I want my entire phone to be so simple, which is why I chose a Mogul over something like an iPhone (and it didn’t hurt that I’m a Sprint customer, of course). But for an MP3 player, the iPhone experience would be nice to have when I want it…a simple process of flipping through my album collection to get to the tunes I want. If you want a more standard “playlist organizer” MP3 player for Windows Mobile, the company also offers LobsterTunes (www.lobstertunes.com), which also gives you the ability to access your tunes collection on your PC. It shouldn’t be perceived as an insult to the Windows Mobile platform that products are developed that reflect the visual interface of the iPhone. For some people and some apps, that format just scratches the itch better (but, again, for an overall phone I’ll take my Mogul over an iPhone anyday).

Interesting that it started such a debate!

]]> By: Christopher Sperahttp://www.geardiary.com/2008/04/29/gearchat-windows-mobile/#comment-34601 Christopher Spera Wed, 30 Apr 2008 04:20:14 +0000 http://www.geardiary.com/?p=7218#comment-34601 I'm sorry I wasn't around to take part in this chat. I wish I could have participated, as most of the stuff that is listed here, Chris G. and I have been yacking about for YEARS. I agree that, while imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, all of this me too crap that is going on with iPhone like features on every other mobile OS in sight is getting a bit old. I love the iPhone. I am likely going to get one or I'm going to look into a Touch Dual; or something that will be running WM 6.1. I also have to agree with Chris G. that most of the specs on some of the more anticipated devices aren't beefy enough. 400mHz isn't nearly fast enough for any kind of application work. The current amount of RAM in most devices (64MB) isn't nearly enough. 128MB works well for WM based devices, but any true multi-tasking OS is going to need more...and don't get me started with battery life. All of these need to be a lot more than they are. The best thing that can happen to Windows Mobile at this point is a huge optimization effort. The memory usage needs to be better. The battery life needs to be improved, and the interface/one-handed operation needs to be better than it is. One of the reasons why the WM based Treos have been so successful has been because its so much easier to use them with one hand than most other WM devices. Now... EDGE vs. 3G. I've been using a BB for the last 4 months. While 3G is much more convenient (simultaneous voice and data is a huge boon). If the 3G iPhone truly IS going to be released on 6/9/08, how important is it truly going to be? If the EDGE iPhone has been optimized, and is doing as well as it has been, will there be a lot of people dumping it for a 3G model? I'm good for either, depending on the price... I’m sorry I wasn’t around to take part in this chat. I wish I could have participated, as most of the stuff that is listed here, Chris G. and I have been yacking about for YEARS. I agree that, while imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, all of this me too crap that is going on with iPhone like features on every other mobile OS in sight is getting a bit old.

I love the iPhone. I am likely going to get one or I’m going to look into a Touch Dual; or something that will be running WM 6.1.

I also have to agree with Chris G. that most of the specs on some of the more anticipated devices aren’t beefy enough. 400mHz isn’t nearly fast enough for any kind of application work. The current amount of RAM in most devices (64MB) isn’t nearly enough. 128MB works well for WM based devices, but any true multi-tasking OS is going to need more…and don’t get me started with battery life. All of these need to be a lot more than they are.

The best thing that can happen to Windows Mobile at this point is a huge optimization effort. The memory usage needs to be better. The battery life needs to be improved, and the interface/one-handed operation needs to be better than it is. One of the reasons why the WM based Treos have been so successful has been because its so much easier to use them with one hand than most other WM devices.

Now… EDGE vs. 3G. I’ve been using a BB for the last 4 months. While 3G is much more convenient (simultaneous voice and data is a huge boon). If the 3G iPhone truly IS going to be released on 6/9/08, how important is it truly going to be? If the EDGE iPhone has been optimized, and is doing as well as it has been, will there be a lot of people dumping it for a 3G model? I’m good for either, depending on the price…

]]> By: Judie Lipsetthttp://www.geardiary.com/2008/04/29/gearchat-windows-mobile/#comment-34597 Judie Lipsett Wed, 30 Apr 2008 03:45:05 +0000 http://www.geardiary.com/?p=7218#comment-34597 Aura Mae, I totally agree. Give me an unlocked device any day... Aura Mae, I totally agree. Give me an unlocked device any day…

]]> By: Aura Maehttp://www.geardiary.com/2008/04/29/gearchat-windows-mobile/#comment-34596 Aura Mae Wed, 30 Apr 2008 03:43:27 +0000 http://www.geardiary.com/?p=7218#comment-34596 Windows Mobile is a whole lot better when the carriers keep their grimy mitts off it. Windows Mobile is a whole lot better when the carriers keep their grimy mitts off it.

]]> By: Judie Lipsetthttp://www.geardiary.com/2008/04/29/gearchat-windows-mobile/#comment-34593 Judie Lipsett Wed, 30 Apr 2008 03:31:35 +0000 http://www.geardiary.com/?p=7218#comment-34593 OMG...I know. ;-) OMG…I know. ;-)

]]> By: Joel McLaughlinhttp://www.geardiary.com/2008/04/29/gearchat-windows-mobile/#comment-34592 Joel McLaughlin Wed, 30 Apr 2008 03:30:12 +0000 http://www.geardiary.com/?p=7218#comment-34592 Longest post.....EVAH! Longest post…..EVAH!

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