Comments on: This Does Not Reassure Me: “Texas School District Will Let Teachers Carry Guns” http://www.geardiary.com/2008/08/15/this-does-not-reassure-me-texas-school-district-will-let-teachers-carry-guns/ Everyone can understand technology; sometimes it just takes a little translating. Wed, 15 Feb 2012 02:34:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: n0dozhttp://www.geardiary.com/2008/08/15/this-does-not-reassure-me-texas-school-district-will-let-teachers-carry-guns/#comment-39069 n0doz Sun, 17 Aug 2008 16:52:01 +0000 http://www.geardiary.com/?p=12329#comment-39069 Hmmm... I've been in law enforcement for over 30 years. Stats and the like are fine for some things, but you cannot rely on them for the most important factors in this story: giving these people a sense of safety, security, and giving them control of their own fate. Having firearms in the possession of responsible individuals in a school building may not be a perfect solution, but then, what would be? As I posted earlier, I'm torn on the subject, but the ultimate decision to carry or not carry a weapon is rightly given, at least in this case, to the people who are "on the scene" in Texas. If it makes them feel safer, then, mission accomplished. Hmmm…
I’ve been in law enforcement for over 30 years. Stats and the like are fine for some things, but you cannot rely on them for the most important factors in this story: giving these people a sense of safety, security, and giving them control of their own fate. Having firearms in the possession of responsible individuals in a school building may not be a perfect solution, but then, what would be?
As I posted earlier, I’m torn on the subject, but the ultimate decision to carry or not carry a weapon is rightly given, at least in this case, to the people who are “on the scene” in Texas. If it makes them feel safer, then, mission accomplished.

]]> By: zorghttp://www.geardiary.com/2008/08/15/this-does-not-reassure-me-texas-school-district-will-let-teachers-carry-guns/#comment-39055 zorg Sun, 17 Aug 2008 02:55:14 +0000 http://www.geardiary.com/?p=12329#comment-39055 Many of the responders to this post appear to be hopelessly ill-informed. One great thing about the web is that you can actually find valuable evidence to confirm or deny whether decisions make sense. Let me suggest the following Bureau of Justice Statistics website: http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/guns.htm There you will learn many interesting facts, including that the use of firearms in crimes has plummeted in the past decade. You will also find a study that showed that thirty percent of guns used in committing crimes were obtained illegally. Seventy percent were obtained legally. A small percentage of law enforcement officers specialize in trying to understand how statistics like these relate to policy. My hope is that they, rather than people who are (thankfully) exposed to only a few violent incidents in their lifetimes, are consulted in formulating public policy on this issue. My guess is that Texas has decided to dump the responsibility for violent acts and their prevention onto individuals who are hopelessly ill-equipped to return fire against a miscreant, no matter how heavily they are armed. Even seasoned law enforcement officers typically land less than half their shots on target in actual gunfights. Interviews show that they evolve strategies to succeed despite knowing that this is the case. Teachers don't have the time nor the infrastructure to do so. Teaching is already a pretty substantial challenge. Many of the responders to this post appear to be hopelessly ill-informed. One great thing about the web is that you can actually find valuable evidence to confirm or deny whether decisions make sense.

Let me suggest the following Bureau of Justice Statistics website:
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/guns.htm

There you will learn many interesting facts, including that the use of firearms in crimes has plummeted in the past decade. You will also find a study that showed that thirty percent of guns used in committing crimes were obtained illegally. Seventy percent were obtained legally.

A small percentage of law enforcement officers specialize in trying to understand how statistics like these relate to policy. My hope is that they, rather than people who are (thankfully) exposed to only a few violent incidents in their lifetimes, are consulted in formulating public policy on this issue.

My guess is that Texas has decided to dump the responsibility for violent acts and their prevention onto individuals who are hopelessly ill-equipped to return fire against a miscreant, no matter how heavily they are armed. Even seasoned law enforcement officers typically land less than half their shots on target in actual gunfights. Interviews show that they evolve strategies to succeed despite knowing that this is the case. Teachers don’t have the time nor the infrastructure to do so. Teaching is already a pretty substantial challenge.

]]> By: kevinnugenthttp://www.geardiary.com/2008/08/15/this-does-not-reassure-me-texas-school-district-will-let-teachers-carry-guns/#comment-39053 kevinnugent Sat, 16 Aug 2008 23:52:32 +0000 http://www.geardiary.com/?p=12329#comment-39053 I love Americans, but really, I shake my head when I read these things. My wife is from Houston and doesn't understand the concern. Sigh.... Another one for the "only in America" file. I love Americans, but really, I shake my head when I read these things. My wife is from Houston and doesn’t understand the concern. Sigh….

Another one for the “only in America” file.

]]> By: Judie Lipsetthttp://www.geardiary.com/2008/08/15/this-does-not-reassure-me-texas-school-district-will-let-teachers-carry-guns/#comment-39052 Judie Lipsett Sat, 16 Aug 2008 21:21:46 +0000 http://www.geardiary.com/?p=12329#comment-39052 "but yet the only people our gun laws prevent from getting a gun are people who obey the law. Thus if you want to break the law and rob a bank or kill someone, I don’t think you care to much about the law in acquiring a gun illegally…" mchinsky, I've been arguing this one for years. I am also in a position to know this on a deeper level than most. It's interesting how many different complicities there can be in this seemingly simple issue, as well as the deep-rooted passions the subject can stir. I really appreciate that everyone on here is keeping everything so beautifully civil. <3 “but yet the only people our gun laws prevent from getting a gun are people who obey the law. Thus if you want to break the law and rob a bank or kill someone, I don’t think you care to much about the law in acquiring a gun illegally…”

mchinsky, I’ve been arguing this one for years. I am also in a position to know this on a deeper level than most.

It’s interesting how many different complicities there can be in this seemingly simple issue, as well as the deep-rooted passions the subject can stir. I really appreciate that everyone on here is keeping everything so beautifully civil. <3

]]> By: mchinskyhttp://www.geardiary.com/2008/08/15/this-does-not-reassure-me-texas-school-district-will-let-teachers-carry-guns/#comment-39049 mchinsky Sat, 16 Aug 2008 20:09:48 +0000 http://www.geardiary.com/?p=12329#comment-39049 I think its a great idea. Most of the well publicized school shootings where dozens have died, got so bad because the shooter could just walk from room to room shooting people at random. It takes police 5 to 15 minutes to show up and takes about 3 to 5 minutes to kill 30 people with enough guns. strapped on a belt. If a teacher wanted to come to school and shoot innocent people, I somehow think a rule against carrying guns wouldn't stop them. Yet a haywire student or stranger on campus, a teacher properly trained to use and licensed to carry a handgun could take him/her down and ensure as few casualties as possible. Not only that, but the knowledge that any teacher could be packing would definitely make a shooter think twice before considering doing one of these sprees. Ever noticed they don't do a terminator and walk into a police station and start shooting?? Why, because they know there are far fewer consequences or they can kill alot more people to make the news since these are often glorified suicides. If you want to blame anybody for these shootings, besides the shooter and his/her parents, the main culprit is the liberal media who loves to publisize these things 24x7 to make the shooter famous and then keep igniting the argument as to why gun laws aren't tough enough (yet in almost every case, the shooter didn't get the gun legally anyway). I don't own a gun, nor do I want one, but yet the only people our gun laws prevent from getting a gun are people who obey the law. Thus if you want to break the law and rob a bank or kill someone, I don't think you care to much about the law in acquiring a gun illegally... I think its a great idea. Most of the well publicized school shootings where dozens have died, got so bad because the shooter could just walk from room to room shooting people at random. It takes police 5 to 15 minutes to show up and takes about 3 to 5 minutes to kill 30 people with enough guns. strapped on a belt.

If a teacher wanted to come to school and shoot innocent people, I somehow think a rule against carrying guns wouldn’t stop them.

Yet a haywire student or stranger on campus, a teacher properly trained to use and licensed to carry a handgun could take him/her down and ensure as few casualties as possible.

Not only that, but the knowledge that any teacher could be packing would definitely make a shooter think twice before considering doing one of these sprees. Ever noticed they don’t do a terminator and walk into a police station and start shooting?? Why, because they know there are far fewer consequences or they can kill alot more people to make the news since these are often glorified suicides.

If you want to blame anybody for these shootings, besides the shooter and his/her parents, the main culprit is the liberal media who loves to publisize these things 24×7 to make the shooter famous and then keep igniting the argument as to why gun laws aren’t tough enough (yet in almost every case, the shooter didn’t get the gun legally anyway).

I don’t own a gun, nor do I want one, but yet the only people our gun laws prevent from getting a gun are people who obey the law. Thus if you want to break the law and rob a bank or kill someone, I don’t think you care to much about the law in acquiring a gun illegally…

]]> By: Judie Lipsetthttp://www.geardiary.com/2008/08/15/this-does-not-reassure-me-texas-school-district-will-let-teachers-carry-guns/#comment-39047 Judie Lipsett Sat, 16 Aug 2008 19:20:57 +0000 http://www.geardiary.com/?p=12329#comment-39047 @reidme - I totally agree with you on that account. @reidme – I totally agree with you on that account.

]]> By: reidmehttp://www.geardiary.com/2008/08/15/this-does-not-reassure-me-texas-school-district-will-let-teachers-carry-guns/#comment-39046 reidme Sat, 16 Aug 2008 19:16:15 +0000 http://www.geardiary.com/?p=12329#comment-39046 Not to go too conservative here, but I don't think the problem is the presence of guns, it's the absence of consequences. Our society has become increasingly blame-free and shame-free in the last few decades. Not to go too conservative here, but I don’t think the problem is the presence of guns, it’s the absence of consequences. Our society has become increasingly blame-free and shame-free in the last few decades.

]]> By: Judie Lipsetthttp://www.geardiary.com/2008/08/15/this-does-not-reassure-me-texas-school-district-will-let-teachers-carry-guns/#comment-39045 Judie Lipsett Sat, 16 Aug 2008 19:05:57 +0000 http://www.geardiary.com/?p=12329#comment-39045 @meatgel - there will be no attacking! ;-) I am sitting at a table having a discussion about this very subject as I type and just got a different perspective from my friend Grabb, a sheriff's deputy. He is telling me about the gang problem from larger cities radiating into the smaller ones, and how some of the gang initiations would involve a particular type of assault against a female teacher. He thinks that might be the unstated issue here, and if so...I guess my eyes have been opened. I can see where the threat of teachers packing heat might help in this case, although it still worries (and saddens) me. :-/ @meatgel – there will be no attacking! ;-)

I am sitting at a table having a discussion about this very subject as I type and just got a different perspective from my friend Grabb, a sheriff’s deputy. He is telling me about the gang problem from larger cities radiating into the smaller ones, and how some of the gang initiations would involve a particular type of assault against a female teacher. He thinks that might be the unstated issue here, and if so…I guess my eyes have been opened. I can see where the threat of teachers packing heat might help in this case, although it still worries (and saddens) me. :-/

]]> By: meatgelhttp://www.geardiary.com/2008/08/15/this-does-not-reassure-me-texas-school-district-will-let-teachers-carry-guns/#comment-39044 meatgel Sat, 16 Aug 2008 18:39:16 +0000 http://www.geardiary.com/?p=12329#comment-39044 Please don't attack me, but I see the point from a different angle. I think the "gun free zones" have helped these people who are doing the shootings at schools. If one college professor had a gun when that guy in Virginia starting shooting that day, he may not have been deterred, but he may not have killed as many people as he did. Kids in high school may be deterred if they think MAYBE a teacher has a gun too ... not all teachers are going to carry, but right now they can't. Puts the odds in the gunman's favor. PS -- I don't carry a gun. Probably shoot myself in the butt somehow. :) Please don’t attack me, but I see the point from a different angle. I think the “gun free zones” have helped these people who are doing the shootings at schools. If one college professor had a gun when that guy in Virginia starting shooting that day, he may not have been deterred, but he may not have killed as many people as he did. Kids in high school may be deterred if they think MAYBE a teacher has a gun too … not all teachers are going to carry, but right now they can’t. Puts the odds in the gunman’s favor.

PS — I don’t carry a gun. Probably shoot myself in the butt somehow. :)

]]> By: Judie Lipsetthttp://www.geardiary.com/2008/08/15/this-does-not-reassure-me-texas-school-district-will-let-teachers-carry-guns/#comment-39042 Judie Lipsett Sat, 16 Aug 2008 18:35:37 +0000 http://www.geardiary.com/?p=12329#comment-39042 @n0doz - I can completely see where you are coming from on this, and if the Harrold ISD had given a compelling reason (such as a concrete past incident like Columbine, or a current and ongoing threat), then I would have thought that they might have a point. This just seems like an extreme solution that either hasn't been well thought out or will cause problems in the long run. :-/ @n0doz – I can completely see where you are coming from on this, and if the Harrold ISD had given a compelling reason (such as a concrete past incident like Columbine, or a current and ongoing threat), then I would have thought that they might have a point. This just seems like an extreme solution that either hasn’t been well thought out or will cause problems in the long run. :-/

]]> By: n0dozhttp://www.geardiary.com/2008/08/15/this-does-not-reassure-me-texas-school-district-will-let-teachers-carry-guns/#comment-39041 n0doz Sat, 16 Aug 2008 17:17:40 +0000 http://www.geardiary.com/?p=12329#comment-39041 I live in the Denver area... this is still a touchy subject out here, even years after Columbine. I'm really torn on the subject. While I'd rather see the school district and local sheriff work together to have a deputy assigned to each school, I know that may not be possible. So what's the next-best option? Violent acts in schools seem to be slowly but steadily rising, so increasing security obviously needs to be addressed. Unfortunately, cost determines what can be done. The school officials are right to try to explore security alternatives, but I would hope they exhaust all of them before arming the teachers. This may be the best they can afford. It's a shame that it's come to this.... I live in the Denver area… this is still a touchy subject out here, even years after Columbine. I’m really torn on the subject. While I’d rather see the school district and local sheriff work together to have a deputy assigned to each school, I know that may not be possible. So what’s the next-best option? Violent acts in schools seem to be slowly but steadily rising, so increasing security obviously needs to be addressed. Unfortunately, cost determines what can be done. The school officials are right to try to explore security alternatives, but I would hope they exhaust all of them before arming the teachers. This may be the best they can afford.
It’s a shame that it’s come to this….

]]> By: Judie Lipsetthttp://www.geardiary.com/2008/08/15/this-does-not-reassure-me-texas-school-district-will-let-teachers-carry-guns/#comment-39039 Judie Lipsett Sat, 16 Aug 2008 16:28:36 +0000 http://www.geardiary.com/?p=12329#comment-39039 @brely - it was the best picture I could find at the time! :lol: @reidme - Yeah! ;-) @brely – it was the best picture I could find at the time! :lol:

@reidme – Yeah! ;-)

]]> By: breleyhttp://www.geardiary.com/2008/08/15/this-does-not-reassure-me-texas-school-district-will-let-teachers-carry-guns/#comment-39037 breley Sat, 16 Aug 2008 15:12:58 +0000 http://www.geardiary.com/?p=12329#comment-39037 Hm, that bears an uncanny resemblance to my wife, except she wears contacts and only owns one revolver. And has better fashion sense. ;-) Hm, that bears an uncanny resemblance to my wife, except she wears contacts and only owns one revolver. And has better fashion sense. ;-)

]]> By: reidmehttp://www.geardiary.com/2008/08/15/this-does-not-reassure-me-texas-school-district-will-let-teachers-carry-guns/#comment-39036 reidme Sat, 16 Aug 2008 14:30:53 +0000 http://www.geardiary.com/?p=12329#comment-39036 Brings a whole new meaning to "shooting for an A". Brings a whole new meaning to “shooting for an A”.

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